Also ,I don’t know if it’s just me, but I’ve noticed that phrases like 'girl’s girl' and 'mean girl' have become subtle dog whistles for misogyny. It’s like the worst thing a woman can be is a 'mean girl'—and once she’s labeled that way, she becomes fair game for all the vitriol people can throw.
In LATAM we talk about sororidad, which means women's solidarity in the face of patriarchal violence. So even if you hate other girl, you defend and support her when she's facing sexism.
With that background, I immediately rolled my eyes at the idea that female solidarity means being an smiling doll who shares her lipgloss and excessively compliment other girls. All these social expectations and codes among women are so tiring and further alineates us from each other.
Thank you so much! I completely agree! That's what grinds my gears the most. It's such a dumbing down of female solidarity. You're completely correct about it alienating us from each other. We're so confined in how we're allowed to interact and so afraid of what it means about us if we fall out of line. It makes interactions disingenuous.
This is so true. Girls girl has also been weaponized to silence any meaningful critique of the things women do. For example, every time someone attempts to bring up how make up or plastic surgery are so interlinked with patriarchal beauty standards they get told they are trying to be different or not being a girls girl. Same with all those femininity = bimbo helpless girlie trends.
Big fan, Paris , and I believe I’m one of your paid subscribers. Sometimes hard to keep track.
I’m struggling to find my way when writing about a feminine problem often seen as only an advantage. It’s the isolation the women and girls most targeted by men as sex objects feel from some other women in their lives. I think of this as the elephant in the room when the “prettiest” women are objectified not just by men and other women, but often ultimately develop self objectification. Yet no one sees this as a problem for the woman, sometimes even the woman herself doesn’t realize how her appearance stunts her growth and relationships.
I’ve felt this strange “no woman’s land” myself and struggled to explain the emptiness and confusion created for women in this category. There’s plenty of talk about pretty privilege but little talk about pretty problems.
The best concrete example I can give was something I saw when working in a small high school. This girl was one of the prettiest girls I’ve ever seen in real life. When she moved to the area, the boys and male teachers were in awe of her which creates a certain kind of distance. The girls were initially critical of her and criticized her for spending too much time on her appearance. (Tho she spent no more time on her appearance than anyone else. Later the girls copied her way of dressing.)
The next prettiest girl tried to befriend her but was so in awe of her, the friendship was superficial.
Mostly I saw this girl sitting alone, an island onto herself. She seemed accustomed to being alone and stared at. She showed signs of anorexia.
She wasn’t a “pick me,” “girl’s girl’s,” or a “mean girl.” I guess if anything she was a sex object.
I’m interested in your thoughts about girls like these, and wonder if there’s a place for them in the feminist narrative.
Thank you for this comment and your support! I find this really interesting. Seeing someone as "perfect" is itself a form of objectification. You're right in that it's the least detected because it often falls under the guise of flattery.
Highly beautiful women experience a unique kind of objectification. Obviously a sexual one from men, and then one often rooted in envy from other women.
I think these women and their experiences are often ignored because they're dismissed as not real problems. Women are told in a myriad of ways since birth that the most important thing they'll do in their lives is become beautiful. Many spend their whole lives trying to get there. Beautiful women are not seen as having any legitimate problems because they've "won" in this system.
But in actuality, they are just as much a victim of misgony as anyone else. They too expense the wrath of male violence. Being seen as "perfect" traps them and prevents them from being allowed to exist as full, flaw individuals.
I empathize with their experience, especially with how they're often alienated from other women. Women are so often trained to be in competition with one another, based on who's the prettiest or who gains the most male attention. A woman who's seen as being at the top of that hierarchy can easily be hated on because she's seemingly happy or perfect.
I can imagine the experience as that "perfect" woman is highly isolating and confusing. We don't often talk about how having a supposedly good thing, beauty in this instance, can hurt you. But it really all boils down to that beauty for women is not frivolous but intimately tied to our self worth and sense of belonging in the world.
I sometimes catch myself saying “not to sound like a pick me…” before I voice an opinion on a matter concerning women. It doesn’t even have to be degrading it can be as minimal as saying “I’d love to wear makeup everyday cause it makes me feel more put together but I don’t wanna spare 20 extra minutes of nap time”. It feels inherently wrong to say anything that’s against the standard for how women should behave. I’ve been lowkey thinking about that but this piece reminded me that it’s OKAY to have your own view on matters that pertain to femininity
It's so important to question why, as women, we might get upset when someone doesn't like a fashion trend we do. I think our potential annoyance reveals more about the societal pressure on women to be obsessed with appearance, making a difference in taste feel like a personal affront. But the real issue isn't whether someone likes a certain trend. This 'girl's girl' concept, when focused on superficial things, risks turning us against each other and distracts us from the crucial fight for equality.
You have such an impeccable ability to articulate thoughts ❤️and this piece boosted my confidence in being comfortable with not being a girl's girl cause I've been called out so many times for that. Called mean and unpleasant for not subscribing to being a "girl's girl"
this is a very balanced take on the subject (because i’ve seen some very unbalanced ones on both sides) and i agree with it. the term “girl’s girl” has slowly become a buzzword used for ignoring nuance, policing reactions and shutting down constructive criticism.
this is not necessarily in response to your article but being a girl’s girl can include random compliments, but i don’t think not complimenting a girl makes you not a girl’s girl. spreading joy through compliments is something i find honorable in any context, but it really isn’t by force.
i think the term should be reclaimed. it really is a good thing at its core.
Absolutely. I was just talking to a friend about how we have lost the plot of “girls girl” Being a girls girl is about making sure a girl you don’t know gets home safe if she’s too drunk at a bar
Being a girls girl does not mean you can’t think a girl has fucked up eyebrows
It’s about safety and protecting each other when it really matters
The real housewives absolutely love using this term for the stupidest situation. I also always thought it was actually the opposite of what it is supposed to do. It’s a big confusion on what loyalty actually means.
Also ,I don’t know if it’s just me, but I’ve noticed that phrases like 'girl’s girl' and 'mean girl' have become subtle dog whistles for misogyny. It’s like the worst thing a woman can be is a 'mean girl'—and once she’s labeled that way, she becomes fair game for all the vitriol people can throw.
Absolutely. It's just sexist bullying disguised as feminism and female solidarity.
Great read! I share the sentiment.
In LATAM we talk about sororidad, which means women's solidarity in the face of patriarchal violence. So even if you hate other girl, you defend and support her when she's facing sexism.
With that background, I immediately rolled my eyes at the idea that female solidarity means being an smiling doll who shares her lipgloss and excessively compliment other girls. All these social expectations and codes among women are so tiring and further alineates us from each other.
Thank you so much! I completely agree! That's what grinds my gears the most. It's such a dumbing down of female solidarity. You're completely correct about it alienating us from each other. We're so confined in how we're allowed to interact and so afraid of what it means about us if we fall out of line. It makes interactions disingenuous.
It often comes off as fake, to play nice, not from a genuine place of solidaridad
This is so true. Girls girl has also been weaponized to silence any meaningful critique of the things women do. For example, every time someone attempts to bring up how make up or plastic surgery are so interlinked with patriarchal beauty standards they get told they are trying to be different or not being a girls girl. Same with all those femininity = bimbo helpless girlie trends.
Yeah, anything that is not passively agreeing with anything a woman does makes you anti-women. It's insane.
Big fan, Paris , and I believe I’m one of your paid subscribers. Sometimes hard to keep track.
I’m struggling to find my way when writing about a feminine problem often seen as only an advantage. It’s the isolation the women and girls most targeted by men as sex objects feel from some other women in their lives. I think of this as the elephant in the room when the “prettiest” women are objectified not just by men and other women, but often ultimately develop self objectification. Yet no one sees this as a problem for the woman, sometimes even the woman herself doesn’t realize how her appearance stunts her growth and relationships.
I’ve felt this strange “no woman’s land” myself and struggled to explain the emptiness and confusion created for women in this category. There’s plenty of talk about pretty privilege but little talk about pretty problems.
The best concrete example I can give was something I saw when working in a small high school. This girl was one of the prettiest girls I’ve ever seen in real life. When she moved to the area, the boys and male teachers were in awe of her which creates a certain kind of distance. The girls were initially critical of her and criticized her for spending too much time on her appearance. (Tho she spent no more time on her appearance than anyone else. Later the girls copied her way of dressing.)
The next prettiest girl tried to befriend her but was so in awe of her, the friendship was superficial.
Mostly I saw this girl sitting alone, an island onto herself. She seemed accustomed to being alone and stared at. She showed signs of anorexia.
She wasn’t a “pick me,” “girl’s girl’s,” or a “mean girl.” I guess if anything she was a sex object.
I’m interested in your thoughts about girls like these, and wonder if there’s a place for them in the feminist narrative.
Thank you for this comment and your support! I find this really interesting. Seeing someone as "perfect" is itself a form of objectification. You're right in that it's the least detected because it often falls under the guise of flattery.
Highly beautiful women experience a unique kind of objectification. Obviously a sexual one from men, and then one often rooted in envy from other women.
I think these women and their experiences are often ignored because they're dismissed as not real problems. Women are told in a myriad of ways since birth that the most important thing they'll do in their lives is become beautiful. Many spend their whole lives trying to get there. Beautiful women are not seen as having any legitimate problems because they've "won" in this system.
But in actuality, they are just as much a victim of misgony as anyone else. They too expense the wrath of male violence. Being seen as "perfect" traps them and prevents them from being allowed to exist as full, flaw individuals.
I empathize with their experience, especially with how they're often alienated from other women. Women are so often trained to be in competition with one another, based on who's the prettiest or who gains the most male attention. A woman who's seen as being at the top of that hierarchy can easily be hated on because she's seemingly happy or perfect.
I can imagine the experience as that "perfect" woman is highly isolating and confusing. We don't often talk about how having a supposedly good thing, beauty in this instance, can hurt you. But it really all boils down to that beauty for women is not frivolous but intimately tied to our self worth and sense of belonging in the world.
Thanks again!
Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful response. I value your assessment.
it is really sad how misogyny/conservative ideology always finds its' way into concepts that were meant to liberate women.
I sometimes catch myself saying “not to sound like a pick me…” before I voice an opinion on a matter concerning women. It doesn’t even have to be degrading it can be as minimal as saying “I’d love to wear makeup everyday cause it makes me feel more put together but I don’t wanna spare 20 extra minutes of nap time”. It feels inherently wrong to say anything that’s against the standard for how women should behave. I’ve been lowkey thinking about that but this piece reminded me that it’s OKAY to have your own view on matters that pertain to femininity
Absolutely agree. Amazing piece!
It's so important to question why, as women, we might get upset when someone doesn't like a fashion trend we do. I think our potential annoyance reveals more about the societal pressure on women to be obsessed with appearance, making a difference in taste feel like a personal affront. But the real issue isn't whether someone likes a certain trend. This 'girl's girl' concept, when focused on superficial things, risks turning us against each other and distracts us from the crucial fight for equality.
Loved this!! I just wanted to restack every other sentence omg.
You have such an impeccable ability to articulate thoughts ❤️and this piece boosted my confidence in being comfortable with not being a girl's girl cause I've been called out so many times for that. Called mean and unpleasant for not subscribing to being a "girl's girl"
Our solidarity is weaker is our ego is so dependent on others approval and we have to act nice instead of relate to each other genuinely. Good essay 🫶
this is a very balanced take on the subject (because i’ve seen some very unbalanced ones on both sides) and i agree with it. the term “girl’s girl” has slowly become a buzzword used for ignoring nuance, policing reactions and shutting down constructive criticism.
this is not necessarily in response to your article but being a girl’s girl can include random compliments, but i don’t think not complimenting a girl makes you not a girl’s girl. spreading joy through compliments is something i find honorable in any context, but it really isn’t by force.
i think the term should be reclaimed. it really is a good thing at its core.
Absolutely. I was just talking to a friend about how we have lost the plot of “girls girl” Being a girls girl is about making sure a girl you don’t know gets home safe if she’s too drunk at a bar
Being a girls girl does not mean you can’t think a girl has fucked up eyebrows
It’s about safety and protecting each other when it really matters
Cool
i never thought of it this way and it just changed my entire outlook and I’m totally hear for it 🫶🏻
Yes yes yes!!
The real housewives absolutely love using this term for the stupidest situation. I also always thought it was actually the opposite of what it is supposed to do. It’s a big confusion on what loyalty actually means.